In this episode, Dr. Abidan Shah will be discussing “Christian-Archy” by Dr. David Alan Black. If you have any questions or topics you would like to be discussed, please tweet them to @hoipolloiradio.
Category Archives: Hoi Polloi Podcast
Episode 21: New Testament Textual Critisism (ft. Dr Peter Gurry)
In this episode Dr. Abidan Shah will be discussing the topic of the New Testament and why we should study it with Dr. Peter Gurry. If you have any questions or topics you would like to be discussed, please tweet them to @hoipolloiradio.
Episode 20: Old Testament Canon (ft. Dr John Meade)
In this episode Dr. Abidan Shah will be discussing the topic of the Old Testament and why we should study it with Dr. John Meade. If you have any questions or topics you would like to be discussed, please tweet them to @hoipolloiradio.
Episode 19: New Testament Biblical Theology
In this episode, Abidan Paul Shah will be discussing the subject of New Testament Biblical Theology. If you have any questions or topics you would like to be discussed, please tweet them to @hoipolloiradio.
Episode 18: The Authorship of Hebrews (ft. Dr David Alan Black)
DIGGING DEEP 4 (Bible Translations) by Abidan Paul Shah
DIGGING DEEP – 4 (Bible Translations) by Abidan Paul Shah
Recap from last week:
- Know the difference between Form and Meaning (From Dave Brunn’s book One Bible, Many Versions). “Form” includes letters, words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs, etc and “meaning” includes concepts or thoughts from the forms
- “For genuine translation to take place, 2 things must happen: The meaning must remain the same, and the form must change (at least to some degree). If either of these two things does not happen, we have not translated.” (Brunn)
- “Full meaning of most words does not transfer directly between two languages.” (Brunn)
- Usually, there is only a partial overlap of meanings between corresponding words between two languages.
- A Greek word has a range of meanings and the most appropriate has to be picked in translation.
- Many times translations are not as accurate or consistent as they should’ve been.
Criteria for Adjustment in Bible Translation (From Dave Brunn’s book One Bible, Many Versions):
- Required by the grammar of the target language
- In Hebrew the standard word order is Verb-Subject-Object-Modifier.
וַתָּ֣קָם חַנָּ֔ה אַחֲרֵ֛י אָכְלָ֥ה בְשִׁלֹ֖ה וְאַחֲרֵ֣י שָׁתֹ֑ה
(Arose – Hannah – after – eating – in Shiloh – and after – drinking – I Samuel 1:9)
- In English the standard word order is Subject-Verb-Object-Modifier.
“So Hannah arose after they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh.”
- Matthew 1:6 Ἰεσσαὶ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Δαυὶδ τὸν βασιλέα. Δαυὶδ δὲ ⸆ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Σολομῶνα ἐκ τῆς τοῦ Οὐρίου,
Actual Translation – “and Jesse begot the David the king. David the king begot the Solomon by the of the Uriah.”
“Wife” has to be added and “the” has to be omitted twice.
- Required to ensure correct meaning
- Romans 6 1 Τί οὖν ἐροῦμεν; ⸀ἐπιμένωμεν τῇ ἁμαρτίᾳ, ἵνα ἡ χάρις πλεονάσῃ; 2 μὴ γένοιτο….
- Actual translation – Romans 6 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 May it not become… (Let it not become)
- Check KJV, NKJV, NIV
- Required to ensure clarity
- The translators added, “who had been” in Matthew 1:6 to make sure that Bathsheba was not married to Uriah at the time Solomon was born.
- Check NASB, KJV, NKJV, NIV
- Ephesians 1:13
- Required to ensure naturalness
- “Bathsheba” added by NASB
- “And” omitted by NASB
- “Begat” should be replaced with much better contemporary word… (“Fathered” implies that David didn’t really have a relationship with Solomon)
DIGGING DEEP 3 (Bible Translations) by Abidan Paul Shah
DIGGING DEEP – 3 (Bible Translations) by Abidan Paul Shah
Recap from last week:
- 2 Major views of Translation: Formal Equivalent (literal/word-for-word); Functional Equivalent (idiomatic/meaning-based/dynamic)
- Range of translation: Highly Literal, Modified Literal, Idiomatic, and Unduly Free
- No translation is strictly one or the other (except maybe the Unduly Free). They frequently overlap, some more than others.
Difference between FORM and MEANING (From Dave Brunn’s book One Bible, Many Versions):
- FORM includes letters, words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs, etc.
- MEANING includes concepts or thoughts from the forms
“For genuine translation to take place, 2 things must happen: The meaning must remain the same, and the form must change (at least to some degree). If either of these two things does not happen, we have not translated.” (Brunn)
How to translate words?
- “Words” are important. They are the building block of any language, the starting point of form.
- “Full meaning of most words does not transfer directly between two languages. Meaning should be viewed as an area and not a precise point.” (Brunn)
- Usually, there is only a partial overlap of meanings between corresponding words between two languages.
- A Greek word has a range of meanings and the most appropriate has to be picked in translation.
- Many times translations are not as accurate or consistent as they should’ve been.
Case in point: Logos (Taken from Dave Brunn’s book One Bible, Many Versions)
- Logos has more meanings than just “word”
John 1:1 (NKJV) “In the beginning was the logos, and the logos was with God, and the logos was God.”
Acts 1:1 (NKJV) “The former logos I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach.”
Romans 14:12 (NKJV) “So then each of us shall give logos of himself to God.”
1 Corinthians 1:18 (NKJV) “For the logos of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”
1 Corinthians 2:1 (NKJV) “And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of logos or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.”
1 Corinthians 2:4 (NKJV) “And my logos and my preaching were not with persuasive logos of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.”
Ephesians 4:29 (NKJV) “Let no corrupt logos proceed out of your mouth…”
1 Timothy 1:15 (NKJV) “This is a faithful logos and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.”
1 Peter 3:15 (NKJV) “…always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a logos for the hope that is in you…”
Acts 20:24 (NKJV) “But of no logos; nor do I count my life dear to myself…”
Matthew 5:32 (NKJV) “But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except for the logos of sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery…”
- Logos is more than just a “single” word
Galatians 5:14 (NKJV) For all the law is fulfilled in one logos, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Check the interesting rendering here by NASB)
John 19:7-8 (NKJV) The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to our law He ought to die, because He made Himself the Son of God.” Therefore, when Pilate heard that logos, he was the more afraid.”
- Guidelines for best translation of logos:
- Literal translations use “word” most of the time for logos since it is the one that corresponds the most.
- Idiomatic translations use the meaning that fits the context the most.
How about Revelation 22 18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
– Check Matthew 25:19; I Corinthians 15:2; Philippians 4:15; and Hebrews 4:13 (Logos is missing in the KJV translation because the translators were going for meaning rather than form.)
DIGGING DEEP 2 (Bible Translations) by Abidan Paul Shah
DIGGING DEEP – 2 (Bible Translations) by Abidan Paul Shah
Recap from last week:
- Translations are still the Word of God. They’re also inspired and inerrant to the extent that they represent the original text.
- Understand the difference between Wahy and Ilham (direct revelation vs. inspiration of the Holy Spirit)
- There is no perfect or ultimate English Bible translation or word-for-word translation.
- The best translation is the “modified literal.” “Modified” represents the real situation and “literal” represents the ideal goal. (Taken from Dave Brunn’s book One Bible, Many Versions: Are All Translations Created Equal?) I lean more towards the literal side of things.
How Translation Works:
2 Major Views of Translation:
- Formal Equivalent: It is also known as “literal” or “word-for-word” translation. It tries to preserve the form in the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek writing. This is with regards to both word and grammar.
- Functional Equivalent: It is also known as “idiomatic” or “meaning-based” translation. Some have even called it dynamic. It tries to focus on the meaning, naturalness, and clarity.
The matter is more complicated than that. The following is a better Range of Translation, as taken from John Beekman and John Callow’s book, Translating the Word of God.)
A. Highly Literal – The focus is on both words and word orders. For e.g. Interlinears.
Joshua 1:9 “Have I not commanded you? Be strong and of good courage; do not be afraid, nor be dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go.”
Actual – Joshua 1:9 (BHS) הֲלֹ֤וא צִוִּיתִ֨יךָ֙ חֲזַ֣ק וֶאֱמָ֔ץ אַֽל־תַּעֲרֹ֖ץ וְאַל־תֵּחָ֑ת כִּ֤י עִמְּךָ֙ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ בְּכֹ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר תֵּלֵֽךְ׃ פ
Literal Translation – ?·not I-instructed·you be-steadfast-you ! and·be-resolute-you ! must-not-be you-are-being-terrified and·must-not-be you-are-being-dismayed that with·you Yahweh· Elohim-of·you in·all which you-are-going
John 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.”
Actual – ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Literal Translation – as many as but received him he gives to them right children of God to be becoming to the ones believing into the name of him.
B. Modified Literal Translation – It focuses on words and is willing to modify the word order to make sense. For e.g. NKJV, NASB, ESV
C. Idiomatic Translation – It focuses much more on sounding natural and clear. For e.g. NLT, God’s Word, etc.
Joshua 1:9 “This is my command—be strong and courageous! Do not be afraid or discouraged. For the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.”
John 1:12 “But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.”
D. Unduly Free – It changes the wording and word order, historical setting, and original context to suit the present audience. For e.g. Cotton Patch Version
Important point to remember: No translation is strictly one or the other (except maybe the Unduly Free). They frequently overlap, some more than others.
Example: Job 19:27
Hebrew – “which I I-shall-perceive for·me and·eyes-of·me they-see and·not alien-one they-are-exhausted kidneys-of·me in·bosom-of·me.”
NKJV – “Whom I shall see for myself, And my eyes shall behold, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!”
ESV – “Whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me!”
NIV – “I will see Him myself; my eyes will look at Him, and not as a stranger. My heart longs within me.”
NLT – “I will see him for myself. Yes, I will see him with my own eyes. I am overwhelmed at the thought!”
MESSAGE – “see God myself, with my very own eyes. Oh, how I long for that day!”
KJV – “Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.”
Episode 17: Running the Race (ft. Dr David Alan Black)
In this episode, Abidan Paul Shah will be talking with Dr. David Alan Black about his newest book “Running My Race: Reflections on Life, Loss, Aging, and Forty Years of Teaching.” It’s about learning to deal with the pains of life in a way that draws us closer to the heart of God. Both laypeople and scholars will benefit from this book.
If you have any questions or topics you would like to be discussed, please tweet them to @hoipolloiradio.